We are so psyched to speak with Kishshana Palmer, CEO of Kishshana & Co. and Chief Growth Officer of The Future Project. She and Helen Choi talk about the pay gap, the leadership gap, women of color and the advancement challenges they face, and the recent race to lead study.

In this interview we go deep into what it feels like to be a person of color in the nonprofit sector, trying to make your way. And seeing the unconscious privilege people from the dominant culture have.

If you listen, you’ll find some ways to help stop unconscious bias in your organization and make things more equitable and just for everyone.

We reference some aspects of white supremacy culture in the interview- including: perfectionism, defensiveness, sense of urgency, paternalism, power hoarding, fear of open conflict, and right to comfort.